Wednesday, August 12, 2015

Tired Hands HopHands "Clone" Revisted

Call it murky or hazy, this beer is like a fruit juice cocktail.

It has been over a year since I posted my recipe for the Tired Hands HopHands "clone", and since that time I have re-brewed the beer somewhere between 10-12 times with small tweaks here and there. In light of some recent subtle recipe changes that myself and some others have made to the recipeand with that post being the second most popular one on my site, I thought it was time to revisit and post an updated (finalized?) HopHands inspired recipe (clone?).

I shared the original recipe on Homebrewtalk to see if others had tried it, or had any additional input. A bunch of people brewed it, some more than once, with great results and even lending their opinions on how to get it even closer to the original. The two most hotly debated parts of the recipe were the yeast strain and percentage of Oats in the grain bill, most felt the hopping was pretty solid. I've tried batches ranging from 12% up to 20% Oats in the grain bill with varying levels of success. As I brewed it more and more I was missing the distinct Oat flavor at the lower volumes as opposed to just a slightly higher percentage. I then hit on 18% Oats and it really started to come together, the body was creamy and full and there was no mistaking the Oats flavor contribution in malt character.

There has been tons of speculation on what yeast strain Tired Hands uses for their hoppy beers (their Saison strain is a bit of a mystery to) and with Jean being tight lipped on the matter its all still mostly speculation. But the rumor with the most traction is in support for Wyeast 1318 London Ale III being what both Tired Hands and Hill Farmstead use, with posts like this driving the speculation. The same batch I brewed with 18% Oats was the first batch I tried London Ale III, and it was a bit of an epiphany. The attenuation was near perfect, the ester profile supported the hop aroma beautifully, and the oats popped more than ever. London Ale III really took this recipe to an entirely different level, it's been a few batches now but I am totally hooked on the strain. For me it's like Conan without having to deal with how finicky that strain can be. Beware though, 1318 is a big time top cropper and the krausen can linger for quite a long time. You're going to need a blow-off tube as well.

There is one final component that has really brought this beer together for me and that is the water profile. I don't claim to be a water expert, and might be exposing myself a bit here, but after playing with a bunch of different profiles and reading what other folks are trying I have found that a nearly 1:1 Sulfate:Chloride ratio is pretty crucial. This is something that Shaun Hill has spoken about before, and I've seen posted on other blogs. This may not work in a Pliny the Elder clone, but for this creamy\lowly bitter beer it works perfectly.

This recipe is also very versatile, I've done batches with all New Zealand hops, newer American hops like Mosaic, or any other aggressively aromatic hop you find. The versatility really comes into play for me when using it in 100% Brett fermentations. The Oats make up for the loss of body due to Brett's inability to create glycerol and the hops in the current recipe go great with strains like B. Brux Var Drei or B. Claussenii. What I normally do is brew a 10 gallon split batch, half clean and half 100% Brett fermented. This way I get a beer to drink fresh and hoppy and another that I can play with a new strain or condition a little longer for added weirdness. 

I suppose that it's possible that HopHands uses a different percentage of Oats, or even a different yeast strain (kinda doubt it at this point) but this recipe here is without a doubt the closest you're going to get to recreating one of Jean's flagship beers. Creamy, tropical and pungent, it has been a staple on tap at my house for quite a while now. With London Ale III now in the mix it's better than it's ever been. 

HopWards


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.00 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.82 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.049 SG
Measured FG: 1.012 SG
ABV: 4.8%
Estimated Color: 4.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 33 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain:
81.9% - 8lbs 8oz - CMC Superior Pale Ale Malt (3.1 SRM)
18.1% - 1lbs 14oz - Flaked Oats

Hops:
First Wort Hop - 0.27 oz CTZ [14.20 %] - 16.3 IBUs
Boil: 15min - 1 Whirlfloc Tablet + 1 tsp Wyeast Yeast Nutrient
Boil:  5min - 0.5 oz Amarillo [8.50 %] - 3.1 IBUs
Boil:  5min - 0.5 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - 3.6 IBUs
Boil:  5min - 0.5 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - 4.7 IBUs
20 Minute Whirlpool 185f - 0.75 oz Amarillo [8.50 %] - 1.4 IBUs -
20 Minute Whirlpool 185f - 0.75 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - 1.7 IBUs
20 Minute Whirlpool 185f 0.75 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - 2.2 IBUs
Dry Hop: 5 days - 2.00 oz Amarillo [8.50 %] 
Dry Hop: 5 days - 2.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %]
Dry Hop: 5 days - 2.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %]

Yeast:

Mash:
Sacch rest - 60 min @ 150.0 F 

Sparge:
Fly Sparge 5.50 gallons 170f

Misc: 60 seconds of pure O2. Cherry Hill, NJ Tap water. Mash pH 5.35, Water Profile ( 132ppm Ca, 19ppm Mg, 7ppm Na, 147ppm Cl, 146ppm SO4). Some acid malt and some Lactic acid was used to lower the mash pH, your water profile may vary.

Notes: Fermentation temp was 66f for 7 days, then kegged and dry hopped in the keg for 5 days. Tapped 14 days from brewday.

94 comments:

  1. Any chance of the NZ hop schedule? As that is on my short list.

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    1. I replaced all of the hops above with equal parts Nelson Sauvin and Motueka. So 5 min 0.75oz Nelson and 0.75ox Motueka, whirlpool was 1.25oz Nelson and 1.25oz Motueka. Dry hop was 3oz Nelson and 3oz Motueka. But my favorite batch was when I subbed Mosaic for Simcoe in the recipe above.

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    2. Interesting. Being in NZ I get to play with theses hops more often, and cheaper than I can for hte US hops. I was contemplating using a blend of Southern Cross, Riwaka (super lovely grapefruit notes) and motueka. The worst that can happen is I have to brew more beer...

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  2. Interesting that your Cl level is over 100 ppm. Going to have to try that. Bru'n Water recommends keeping chloride under 100 ppm to avoid getting Dortmunder like minerality. Do you notice any minerality in tasting this beer?

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    1. Its not minerally at all, I was worried about that to. Its silky smooth with a muted bitterness. I didnt want to lower the Sulfates much below 150 and have been creeping the Cl up as close as I can get, this most recent batch is the highest Ive ever gotten the Cl and closest to 1:1 as ever. Its not unprecedented as the profile above isnt far off from the Balanced Profile II on Brewers Friend. http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewing-water-target-profiles/

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  3. Awesome update! The first time I tried to brew this beer, it ended up being the first infected batch I've ever brewe(no fault of the recipe, obviously). I actually already have it on my brew schedule coming up in a couple weeks, so this was perfect timing. Thanks for the follow up!

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    1. Well hopefully things will go better for you this next time. Let me know how it turns out Jerad, cheers!

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    2. So I've had this on tap for a couple weeks now, and it's pretty phenomenal. I blended half 2 row, half maris otter to approximate the pale malt you use. Creamy mouthfeel from the high pecentage of oats is really nice. It all works so well with this yeast strain and the aggressive dry hopping (and the high cloride water profile).

      I saved some slurry and I'm really interested to use this in a couple more brews. Have you tried 1318 in any other styles? I'm thinking it would work well in a hoppy amber and will probably try that next. Thanks for all the work you did on this recipe, I think it's going to become a house staple!

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    3. Glad to hear youre enjoying it, its one of my favorite beers.

      I havent ventured into many other styles with it but I dont see why it wouldnt be versatile enough for other styles. A Hoppy Amber would probably work super well.

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  4. Have my first hoppy pale keg carbing currently using a similar water profile, 1318, and a mash PH of 5.3. Had to add some additional chalk to get the PH back to that level (too much lactic acid addition accidentally...) so my calcium levels are probably out of sorts but it tastes good so far. Not as juicy as I was shooting for but Mosaic is shining through nicely. I'm curious how you gauge bottling volume. I always shoot for at least 6 gallons post-boil volume in order to account for dry hop loss and trub.

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  5. Apologize if I missed it, but what's your fermentation look like? Temp, dry hop timing, era. Thx

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    1. Good call, forgot to put that in there. I've been using 1318 at 64-66f, this batch was 66f for the 7 days, then dry hopped in the keg for 5 days.

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  6. Nice! I've been making this recipe frequently over the past 6 months. Initially I used S4 with good results, but my last batch I used split 1318 with US05. My wife said the 1318 batch was the best beer she's ever had. US05 was pretty average. I also add about 5% dextrine malt to get it to finish where I want (~1.015). I've never had the HopHands or any of Hill Farmstead beers, but love this recipe. Thanks.

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    1. Its amazing the difference between this beer with a characterful English strain and a clean American strain isnt it? The yeast take this beer tot a totally different level instead of getting out of the way like US05 does. Cheers!

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  7. Just ordered some 1318 and going to try this now that my keezer is up and running. I haven't brewed a hoppy beer in over a year! I have only brewed a clean beer maybe twice in over a year! But having this beer on draught at the pub and seeing this post makes me want to put them back in rotation. Cheers, Ed!

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  8. Crazy, this is what I've totally gravitated to over the past year for almost all of my hoppy beers. My water profile is similar, but I bump towards the Cl. I run 100 Ca, 75 So, 150 Cl. I've been running all whirlpool hops recently as well. It'd be interesting to see what this would taste like all whirlpooled. Solid writeup. Cheers.

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  9. What is your dry hop and carb method? Keg, carb, and dry hop at room temp and remove hops after 5 days? Keg, carb and dry hop at keg temp (38-40°) and leave them in for the life of the keg? Whats your carb method - psi&temp@__°F

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    1. Good question, I have a post in the works documenting my dry hop process that should be posted next week. I utilize 2 kegs not unlike how Derek from Bearflavored.com does, but neither of mine are modified. I rack under pressure to a co2 purged keg with a nylon bag of hops suspended and dry hop at room temp for 5 days and then use a keg jumper to push that beer into a serving keg where I carb to ~2.3-2.5vol of co2. This method works great as the beer is never exposed to o2 post ferment.

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    2. Have you tried leaving the hops in the keg permanently? I just kicked a keg that was on four ounces of hops for about 2.5 months with no ill effects. On the other hand, if you have no aroma loss throughout the life of the keg, you may not need to do this. Cheers!

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  10. Hello again! I see Cherry Hill tap water in the recipe? Had no idea you were this close to me. Congrats on perfecting the clone, and I'll be brewing my extract version in a month or so once I obtain new equipment. I really wish the hop bill was a bit cheaper but them's the breaks of homebrewing the good stuff. Cheers!

    P.S. for a 5 gallon batch, I plugged in the hop bill exactly and got the target IBUs that I want. Would you halve the hop bill if you were to do a 5 gallon batch? I assume so. I just wanted to double check. Thanks again.

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    1. Whoops! I'm dumb. Just realized that this is for a 5.5 gallon batch. Was thinking about your previous HopWards write-up with it being a 10 gallon batch.

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    2. Oh yea sorry about that, I am trying to keep all of my recipes posted as 5.5 gallons even if I am brewing larger batches. Its easier for sharing with people who normally do 5 gallons. Yea this isnt a cheap beer on the hop bill, but your grain beer is small and relatively cheap so there is some balance there.

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  11. If you were bottling this, how would you go about hte dry hop procedure?

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    1. I would suspend a bag of dry hops in primary just as fermentation slowed down. But with enough off gassing still happening to prevent oxidation.

      I've used this in the past in a pinch and it works very well.

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  12. So if you don't have pale malt, can you do a combo of two row and some marris otter? What about some pearl malt? Also, with Simcoe getting harder to find, any suggestions for alternatives?

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    1. I have used both Pearl and Marris Otter in the beer and it's awesome. Both a subtle tweak from the Weyermann Pale Malt I have been using, MO is a little more bready and Pearl is somewhere in between for me. I actually have used Pearl on the last 2 batches and loved it.

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    2. I have played with this beer using Mosaic in place of Simcoe and its pretty great. Kind of a different beer but brighter if you ask me, if that makes any sense.

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  13. Thanks Ed! I have some pearl so I will give that a shot. I have a starter of Conan going now, so I will give that a shot, I also just got some 1318 today, but no time to build it up. Next batch.

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    1. Awesome, it'll be great with Pearl. Ive brewed this beer with both Conan and 1318, both great versions. Cheers!

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  14. So I brewed this up and it has essentially zero head retention. Gave it 30 psi for a day, then 20 for a day, and 15 psi for the last three days. It smells fantastic and tastes great. Does it need a higher carbonation level than the style would normally utilize? Only change was Mosaic hops swapped in for the simcoe. My water was pretty different, but I can't see that destroying head retention right? I thought it would be similar enough. Perhaps a mash pH issue? I hit 1.051 og and it finished around 1.01

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    1. Actually, I tend to carb this on the lower end for the style (as TH tends to do), in the 2.3vol range. Even with that level of carbonation this beer always pours with a thick rocky head for me, unlike TH actually. There can be a bunch of factors leading to pour head retention, but we can cross off the grain bill being the culprit bc this has tons of oats in it. Give this article a read, some good things to think about here. Do you not normally have issues with this? Could be fermentation related.

      https://byo.com/bock/item/693-getting-good-beer-foam-techniques

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    2. Turns out I just didn't give it enough time to carbonate. After a week in the keg it was pretty ideal with perfect head. One of the best beers I've ever made, and I'll be trying it with some experimental hops, and Australian/NZ hops too. I literally would swirl this beer around in my Teku glass and smell it for minutes at a time while watching TV.

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  15. Hey, just curious about your bittering hop addition, as I see half an ounce of CTZ @ 60min being at nearly 29IBU and not 16.4. Maybe I'm missing something, it's late and I've had a few, but was really interested in brewing this recipe and was confused when I noticed this. thanks!

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    1. Good catch, a little typo. Thats a First Wort Hop addition and not a 60 minute addition. Thats why you're getting a different calculation. I just changed it.

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    2. far out, thanks for the clarification. will be brewing this next weekend, can't wait!

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  16. Hey Ed,
    I can't get a hold of Amarillo. Any suggestion to a substitute hop for this recipe?

    /Lars

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    1. Thats a tough one to substitute, maybe a little mix of Cascade and Citra to replace it. Ive read Ahtanum could be used to sub, but I really dont think there is any sub for Amarillo.

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  17. Ed,
    Thanks for the inspiration and your blog!
    I'm currently drinking a 2.5 gallon pale ale inspired by this clone brew.
    Instead of 18% oats I used white wheat, a "hoppy" water profile and all Galaxy.
    Hop ratios and timing are the same as yours. Except in order to get it ready for Thanksgiving I only dry hopped for one day and then transferred from the hop keg to a serving keg to carbonate.
    Wow...the beer going into the dry hop keg was very balanced with great yeast character and a smooth fruity hop aroma and flavor with a touch of citrus bittering.
    After the dry hop...wow again...I carbonated from Monday night to Thursday at 45 degrees...the hop and and yeast aroma pop nice but the citrus hop flavor dominates. Like chewing on raw hops but just below that threshold of unpleasant raw character. I like Galaxy a lot. Personally curious to just do the beer without the dry hop.
    Anyways, do you find this hop flavor in your clone?

    Thanks again for the blog! It's great.

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    1. Ive experienced that raw dry hop character, it fades in a few weeks/days. I actually like it uber fresh like that but its a better all around beer as things calm down a bit. Galaxy is an amazing hop, Ive yet to use it in this beer but plan to at some point. Cheers!

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  18. Ed,

    How did you calculate your FWH IBUs and your Whirlpool IBUs? I'm using Beersmith and my numbers are way differetnt. Did you change the utilization? Thanks and looking forward to brewing this recipe!

    Adam

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    1. Hey Adam, the FWH calculation is right from Beersmith. I change the utilization for the Whirlpool though, I assume 10% utilization for those. I read that some where but dont remember where, it doesnt much matter though, those additions get you where you need to be with aroma.

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    2. What did you put for your time then for the FWH? According to Brad Smith your are supposed to put your boil time for the FWH time which would be 60 min in our case. When I put that in for CTZ, I get around 29 IBUs. Which makes sense because when you put in the 60 min addition for CTZ you get 10% less than that. Are you putting in the time that it takes you to collect your wort instead of the boil time?

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    3. I think he forgot to halve that part of the recipe, since it's a 10 gallon originally. I'd go with 0.25 ounce FWH.

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    4. Yup, thats what I did, doh! Sorry folks. Its been fixed.

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  20. Ended up brewing this and loving it, was craving Hophands ever since I moved out of the area :) I have a vial of TYB's Funktown Pale, and was thinking this recipe with the mosaic sub you suggested might be a good fit. I know that blend isn't truly Brett, but how have your Brett versions of this recipe been? Anything that went really well or that you might try with the blend?

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    1. This beer works great as a 100% brett beer, the Oats really help in saving it from being a thin beer due to most Brett strains not producing glycerol. I currently have a 100% Drei fermented un-dry hopped version of this beer on tap, after some time in the keg its tasting amazing.

      I think the Funktown blend will work super well in this beer, Conan and Trois, how can you go wrong?

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  22. Ed,

    I live in Cherry Hill as well. My water is supplied by MPWC, if you are the same, do you happen to know the default water chemistry is coming out of the faucet? I've never messed with water chemistry before, just ran the water through a PUR filter.

    I'm looking to brew this recipe very soon.

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    1. Hey Jesse, I am using a report from when I sent a sample off to Ward Labs but its a little bit dated so I just sent a new sample out this week. This is what I have been working from over the last year and a half, not sure how much it has drifted since then but I can follow up once I get the new results back.

      Ca: 19, Mg: 5, Cl: 5, S04: 7, CaC03: 72

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    2. Awesome, thanks. If you don't mind sharing the results when they come back on the new sample that would be awesome.

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    3. Will do, should have it next week sometime.

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    4. Awesome. By the way, is you water supplied by MPWC?

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  23. Really cool of you to post this! I'm very excited to brew this one this weekend. I might use some different hops. I will post my tasting notes in a few weeks. Cheers!

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    1. Substitute Centennial with Citra or Nelson

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  24. Thanks for posting this! Just wondering what scaling this up to get a little higher abv would look like. Would the grain bill be something like 11lbs of the pale and 2.43 of the oats?

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  25. Looks like a great brew - one thing that looks off is the SRM. Hop Hands can't be more then a 3.7 SRM. Have you thought about mixing the Pale Ale Malt with 2-Row Pale to get the color closer to Hop Hands?

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    1. I don't know that I can visually tell the difference between 4.5 and 3.7 SRM and frankly don't sweat such a minute difference. I suppose I could blend base malts as you said but with this recipe being extremely close to the original I am perfectly fine calling at this.

      Malts can vary in color from crop year to crop year, so changing up a recipe to drop the SRM 0.8 points, and possibly change the beers profile, isnt something I am willing to do. I also started working on this recipe 2.5 years ago when TH was using Canada Malting Pale Malt, I believe they use a different brand now. Recently Ive been using Weyerman Pale Malt with great sucess.

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  26. how do you avoid a stuck mash/sparge with all that oats in the grist?

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    1. Rice hulls, available from most brewing stores, add no flavor or sugars to the beer but can significantly reduce the chance of a stuck mash by providing a proper grain bed that filters the wort. Rice hulls are particularly useful for recipes using high protein additives such as large amounts of wheat, flaked barley, or flaked oats.

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    2. I dont use rice hulls in this recipe and dont have any issues with run off. I do use Rice hulls when I use a ton or Rye or wheat though, just a "handful" makes a huge difference. Everyones system is different so if you have issues with a stuck sparge dont be afraid to use a small amount of rice hulls.

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    3. Thanks, just did an IPA with 20% oats 40% wheat and 40% 2row, got a little stuck but nothing big, came out tasting great, can't wait to taste it when the fermentation is finished

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    4. Anyone else getting way different IBU's in the whirlpool hops? I'm using BeerSmith, maybe that is why.

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    5. Also getting different IBU's on the FWH addition.

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    6. Beersmith's whirlpool calculations are way off, I assume for 10% utilization of the hops in the whirlpool. Thats how I get those numbers. Youre IBU calculations might be different depending upon the Alpha acid % of the batch of hops you have. If you just get it close I wouldnt worry about it much.

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  27. I brewed this last week and just added the dry hop today. WOW! What a great beer already. The body is the best I have ever brewed. The smell is already amazing.

    How much are you actually kegging at the end? I have never used this much hops, but it seems like I have lost a LOT of beer during the boil due to 3 oz of hops. And I expect to lose a lot more during secondary.

    Also, did you choose to use leaf hops or pellets? I went with pellets in the boil and leaf for dry hopping, since I figured it would be easier to separate the leaf hops after secondary. Any opinions?

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  28. Chicago here, I am brewing this Friday, thanks for the dope recipe.

    Quick question, for dry hopping in glass carboy, do you recommend a good way to suspend them? I have tried mesh nets and it never works and you can't get them out. Or do you suggest just throwing the pellets in and let them settle when cold crashing? Thanks!

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    1. I prefer to dry hop with whole leaf hops because you can siphon around them. I just drop them in. If you wanted, you could do the following:
      1) Put a few sanitized glass marbles into a hop bag
      2) Hang bag inside fermenter
      3) Add hops and then close bag

      It will sink to the bottom and not get in your way when you transfer to your bottling bucket! But it's a pain to get out later. I end up needing to cut the bag inside the fermenter to free it.

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    2. Thanks will, I've tried suggested method, those were the mesh nets I was referring to, bad wording. I always have to cut and if you want to double dry hop it makes it impossible, hopefully Ed has some insight!

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    3. I was never able to get the aroma extraction I was happy with when dry hopping in the carboy, a bit too much o2 exposure for my likiing. My method for dry hopping in the keg works very very well. But if I were in your boat I would look into using these things, Ive never used them but the idea makes a lot of sense to me. But with with 6oz of hops you might need to add 2-3 of them.

      http://www.homebrewing.org/product.asp?itemid=3587&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&gclid=Cj0KEQjwzq63BRCrtIuGjImRoIIBEiQAGLHdYRramQ0dVMLJVTZPzSCRQMNmaCc-3GTsnwjNzcaRur0aAoOF8P8HAQ

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  29. Brewed this last night, can't wait for results! I was concerned about treating mash water and sparge water. I dropped mash to 4.7 before grains went in then it got up to 5.5. I then figured treating sparge with lactic and a little gypsum made sense because if I didn't it would raise overall pH, was this wrong?

    Last note, I took the final pH of Hophands and it is 4.4-4.5 at room temperature, does pH drop during fermentation? Why is their pH so low, is that the secret?

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    1. 5.5 is ok, but I like to get down to 5.3. I see a jump in efficiency and achieve conversion super quickly, like 30m minutes and the mash is really complete although I still rest for 60. Next time try to add a little more acid to get the mash pH down a little bit further. But youre on the right track and 5.5 is not something I would worry about that is considered in the target range, just a tweak for next time.

      Acidifying and adding salts the sparge water is fine if your source water is high pH or if you need more sulfates in your final water profile but adding them to the mash would hurt your mash pH. You can even add the gypsum to the boil.

      4.4-4.5 is normal for final beer pH of ales, the pH drops naturally as fermentation goes on. They are likely not even checking the final beer pH of this beer.

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    2. Thanks for all the insight Ed! To clarify, are you saying I should not add gypsum to the mash water in the hot liquor tank pre mash tun? I was using a water calculator and I did end up adding gypsum to the mash water, I was reading during conversion you wanted to have the calcium and sulfates for the enzymes, is this wrong? Maybe that was fermentation.

      Also, if say your mash pH is 5.6 15 minutes in, do you add lactic acid straight to the mash, or you are saying it's too late at that point and it'll hurt your mash?

      Since I am new to water chemistry, is it the final water profile fermentation what I should be worried about then? Only concerned with the boil water profile?

      Good to know about final pH, thank you! This is a whole area that has so much information

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    3. Im no water expert just know enough to be dangerous. But yes you were correct in adding the acid and salts to your strike water prior to mashing in, they aid in adjusting mash pH as well as the profile of the water for your beer.

      You can add more lactic acid, just make note for next time that your calculations were a little off and adjust for the next batch. I normally dont tweak and just run with it so I can evaluate and see what the result was and adjust for the next beer.

      You should be worried about your mash pH and the final water profile. Once you have adjusted the water during mash and then sparge youre all set.

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  30. This might be a dumb question but why do you add the whirlfloc tablet? You know the beer is going to be hazy and that's what you want. Are you just trying to drop out large particles and is that counter productive in a way that caused you to need 18% oats?

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    1. Well, I don't want it to be hazy but that's a by product of the sum of this beers parts and I do enjoy the haze. But what I'm trying to avoid is the beer being super murky and the Whirlfloc helps with that. With the long whirlpool and subsequent chill haze I am still concerned with the beer being over the top on the haze. I want the beer to be well Brewed and clean with a beautiful haze. All about the hops, creamy texture and beautiful appearance.

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  31. I actually asked Jean, and he said he uses 2-Row and Fawcett Oat Malt, 80% 2Row/20% oats. He wasn't clear on whether flaked oats make up any of that 20%.

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    1. Awesome! I hadn't heard that before. I know they use Briess now and used Canada Malting before so wonder if they changed suppliers and mixed it up. This beer still works as t is but that's great info and I'll give it a try. Cheers!

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    2. Last time I was there, they had TONS of Briess malt bags!

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  32. I brewed this using mosaic instead of simcoe, cold water carbon filter, adjusted strike water pH / sparge water pH with lactic acid, 1/2 a campden tab, a little gypsum, and I forgot the damn calcium chloride so did without, and split hops up to double dry hop over 6 days in our temp controlled chest freezer. Results.....it is the best pale ale I've ever brewed! All grain over 1 year now, was waiting for something like this, thank you for sharing this recipe, I'll be brewing renditions of this all spring/summer long. So far all samplers have been blown away. Going to try and dry hop with a little active fermentation next time to see if it makes any difference in taste. Siphoning this was a hell of a task. I'm putting in a request, try to figure out what makes Alien Church different and work on a clone for that! I know if I can get my hands on more to taste I will, body is similar but has more body or a little more malt maybe?

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  33. Check out the recent stealthisbeer podcast - they interview Jean and he talks about some of their beers

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    1. I heard that one! Ironically had ordered TF Oats the week prior to that podcast after seeing sacks of it at TH hands. Working on a post about a beer I am brewing with them this week.

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  34. Do you leave dry hops in the keg for the life of the beer? Just suspend a sanitized muslin bag or something?

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    1. No I just dry hop for ~5 days in a keg with the hops in suspension, then push the beer to a serving keg afterwards.

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  35. Thanks for the recipe. I finally got around to brewing this. The only difference is that I used centennial FWH as that is what I had on hand. All i can say is this beer is delicous and crushable. Looking forward to trying some new hop combos with this recipe. I will have some form of this on tap at all times.

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  36. Did you know that you can shorten your urls with AdFly and receive money for every visit to your shortened links.

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  37. church financing is needed for many reasons. Such as sudden need of money supply, debts or shortly needed huge money for construction or development. Though needs exist, lenders are not eager enough to finance.SO in this case,church financiers plays vital roles.

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  38. I'm sure most here probably keg but of there is anyone who bottles, any issues with oxidation? I would like to brew this but don't want to fight the oxidation as in NE IPA's.

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